The secret to desire in a long-term relationship

TED与纪录片

TED简介：2013 | 在长期关系中，我们通常希望我们的爱人能成为我们的好朋友和性伴侣。但Esther Perel认为，良好的、有承诺的性关系源于两种相冲突的需要：安全感和惊喜需要。所以，你将如何维系自己的性欲呢？Perel将用她的智慧和雄辩的口才和我们一起探索性商的奥秘。

演讲者：Esther Perel 埃丝特·佩瑞尔

片长：19：07

原文链接：TED | 对长期伴侣保持欲望的秘诀（视频+中英对照翻译+音频）

中英文对照翻译

So, why does good sex so often fade, even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever? And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex, contrary to popular belief? Or, the next question would be, can we want what we already have? That's the million-dollar question, right?

为何性爱的激情那么容易褪色？就算是那些爱得如胶似漆的夫妇也无一例外。为何亲密的爱情也无法维持激情的色彩呢？这和我们普遍对性生活与爱情的关系的认知相违背。或者说，换第二个问题: 我们能留住我们现有的性生活频率吗？ 这可是个很值得研究的问题，对吧？

And why is the forbidden so erotic? What is it about transgression that makes desire so potent? And why does sex make babies, and babies spell erotic disaster in couples? It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it? And when you love, how does it feel? And when you desire, how is it different?

再者，为什么偷腥会令人如此激情彭拜?又是什么东西令人在偷尝云雨之情时有如此旺盛的性欲呢？又是为何性爱孕育了儿女而儿女却最终反过来却成为夫妻性爱的灾难呢？这对于性欲可是种致命的打击，不是么？还有，当你爱时，你有什么感受？并且当你产生欲望时，这种感受又会有什么不同的变化？

These are some of the questions that are at the center of my exploration on the nature of erotic desire and its concomitant dilemmas in modern love. So I travel the globe, and what I'm noticing is that everywhere where romanticism has entered, there seems to be a crisis of desire. A crisis of desire, as in owning the wanting -- desire as an expression of our individuality, of our free choice, of our preferences, of our identity -- desire that has become a central concept as part of modern love and individualistic societies.

这些都是我今天想要探讨的问题——探索现代爱情中人类的原始性冲动和其伴随而来的困境。为了这一研究，我去了很多国家，而我注意到凡是浪漫的国度都面临着性欲消退的危机。欲望消退危机——正如我们的需要一样，性欲作为我们对自身个体的表达：是对于我们的自由选择、偏好和身份的一种需要，性欲已经成为现代爱情和崇尚个人主义的社会的核心概念。

You know, this is the first time in the history of humankind where we are trying to experience sexuality in the long term, not because we want 14 children, for which we need to have even more because many of them won't make it, and not because it is exclusively a woman's marital duty. This is the first time that we want sex over time about pleasure and connection that is rooted in desire.

要知道，这是人类历史上首次我们长期体验性爱，不是为了生一大堆孩子，比如说14个。 ——或许我们部分人可能要生养育更多，以防很多可能会夭折，也不是源于女人生儿育女的天职。人类第一次将我需要性的观点超越了仅仅是体内的性欲在作怪，是因为性爱能给人们带来愉悦和稳定的关系。

why does good sex so often fade? What is the relationship between love and desire? How do they relate, and how do they conflict? Because therein lies the mystery of eroticism.

为什么美妙的性爱体验容易消散呢？爱和欲之间的联系到底是什么呢？它们是怎样联系起来的，又是怎么相互冲突的呢？横亘在这两者之间的是性欲的奥秘。

So if there is a verb, for me, that comes with love, it's "to have." And if there is a verb that comes with desire, it is "to want." In love, we want to have, we want to know the beloved. We want to minimize the distance. We want to contract that gap. We want to neutralize the tensions. We want closeness. But in desire, we tend to not really want to go back to the places we've already gone. Forgone conclusion does not keep our interest.

如果要我用一个动词来描述爱，那就是“拥有" 而对于性欲，我想用"索求"来描述最恰当不过了。在爱情中，我们想要拥有，我们想要了解我们的爱人我们想腻在一起，想跨越阻碍，我们想调和不安的情绪，我们想亲密无间。而在性欲方面，我们不想回到我们已经经历过的地方。过时的结论提不起我们的兴趣。

In desire, we want an Other, somebody on the other side that we can go visit, that we can go spend some time with, that we can go see what goes on in their red light district. In desire, we want a bridge to cross. Or in other words, I sometimes say, fire needs air. Desire needs space. And when it's said like that, it's often quite abstract.

在性欲方面，我们想找的是我们的另一半，一个在彼岸，一个我们想去探索的另一半 一个我们想呆在一起的另一半和一个我们能探索其瘾秘的内心世界的另一半。在性欲中，我们想找的是一座沟通的桥梁。换言之，“一个巴掌拍不响啊” 性欲也需要空间。这样说或许有点抽象吧。

But then I took a question with me. And I've gone to more than 20 countries in the last few years with "Mating in Captivity," and I asked people, when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner? Not attracted sexually, per se, but most drawn. And across culture, across religion, and across gender -- except for one -- there are a few answers that just keep coming back.

带着一个问题，几年间我带着"Mating in Captivity" 这本书走访了20多个国家。每到一处，我都会问人们："你什么时候最喜欢和爱人呆在一起？" 我说的是呆在一起而不是一起性爱 来自不同文化、不同地区、不同性别的人，除一个有点例外，其它人给我的回答不外如是。

So the first group is: I am most drawn to my partner when she is away, when we are apart, when we reunite. Basically, when I get back in touch with my ability to imagine myself with my partner, when my imagination comes back in the picture, and when I can root it in absence and in longing, which is a major component of desire.

第一组：最想和爱人在一起的时候，是爱人不在身边的时候、是分开的时候或是小别重逢时。也就是，当我能用我的想象力想像我和爱人在一起的时候，当我的想像力能回到这方面来的时候，当爱人不在而我又想要的时候，这就是性欲的主要组成部分。

But then the second group is even more interesting: I am most drawn to my partner when I see him in the studio, when she is onstage, when he is in his element, when she's doing something she's passionate about, when I see him at a party and other people are really drawn to him, when I see her hold court. Basically, when I look at my partner radiant and confident, probably the biggest turn-on across the board. Radiant, as in self-sustaining. I look at this person -- by the way, in desire people rarely talk about it, when we are blended into one, five centimeters from each other.

然而，另一组回答更有趣。我最想和爱人在一起的时候是当我看到他在录影棚工作、在舞台上表演的时候、当他在做正经事的时候、当他在做她感兴趣的事情的时候、当我看到他在party上谜倒一大堆人的时候、当她开庭的时候。一般而言，当我看到我的爱人光芒四射而又自信的时候这就是最大的刺激物了。光芒四射，在自我维系中也如此。在欲望中，我看这个人人们很少谈论这些，当我们粘在一起的时候也就是相隔5厘米左右的时候。

I don't know in inches how much that is. But it's also not when the other person is that far apart that you no longer see them. It's when I'm looking at my partner from a comfortable distance, where this person that is already so familiar, so known, is momentarily once again somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive. And in this space between me and the other lies the erotic élan, lies that movement toward the other. Because sometimes, as Proust says, mystery is not about traveling to new places, but it's about looking with new eyes. And so, when I see my partner on his own or her own, doing something in which they are enveloped, I look at this person and I momentarily get a shift in perception, and I stay open to the mysteries that are living right next to me.

说实在的我不知道是几厘米，但是，这种分别并不是说相隔太远以至于以后都不能相见。而是我能在一个比较合适的距离看着我爱的人那个我熟悉和相知的，还带有点神秘，有点难以捉摸的人。我和爱人之间的距离成了一条性欲的纽带也造成了我们的相互走动，因为有时候，正如Proust说的那样发现奥秘不一定要到一个新的地方去，而只要我们有新视角就行。所以，当我们看到我们的另一半独自在忙自己的事的时候。看着他我会对他有一种新的了解和认识，而我对我身过的一些奥秘是常怀着关注之情的。

And then, more importantly, in this description about the other or myself -- it's the same -- what is most interesting is that there is no neediness in desire. Nobody needs anybody. There is no caretaking in desire. Caretaking is mightily loving. It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac. I have yet to see somebody who is so turned on by somebody who needs them. Wanting them is one thing. Needing them is a shutdown, and women have known that forever, because anything that will bring up parenthood will usually decrease the erotic charge. For good reasons, right?

更重要的是，对别人的了解或者对自己的了解，都一样。最有趣的是，这不需要性欲。没有谁需要谁。性欲不存在谁照顾谁的问题。照顾是一种了不起的大爱，是一种强大的崔情药。我还看到一些人的性欲是被那些需要他们的人唤起的，想要是一回事，但需要会令人性趣索然，这点女人最清楚了，因为任何母性有关的东西都会降低性欲。很有道理，是不是？

And then the third group of answers usually would be when I'm surprised, when we laugh together, as somebody said to me in the office today, when he's in his tux, so I said, you know, it's either the tux or the cowboy boots. But basically it's when there is novelty. But novelty isn't about new positions. It isn't a repertoire of techniques.

第三类回答是：当我感到惊喜时，当我们一起大笑时会性趣大发，比如说，今天有人在我的办公室告诉我，当他穿着无尾半正式晚礼服时最有感觉了。其实性欲与晚礼服或牛仔靴无关而是与猎奇有关。但新奇并不只意味着新的体位，也不是五花八门的性爱技巧。

Novelty is, what parts of you do you bring out? What parts of you are just being seen? Because in some way one could say sex isn't something you do, eh? Sex is a place you go. It's a space you enter inside yourself and with another, or others. So where do you go in sex? What parts of you do you connect to? What do you seek to express there? Is it a place for transcendence and spiritual union?

新奇是你将自已的哪一面展现出来？你的哪一面你的爱人熟悉？因为在某种程度上，我们会说 性交并不专指性交活动，对吧？性交过程其实像你在去一个地方是一个进入自己或对方体内的过程。因此，性交时何去何从？你们身体的哪一部分有接触？你们想在那里表达些什么？那是一个表现性爱技巧和精神合一的地方吗？

Is it a place for naughtiness and is it a place to be safely aggressive? Is it a place where you can finally surrender and not have to take responsibility for everything? Is it a place where you can express your infantile wishes? What comes out there? It's a language. It isn't just a behavior. And it's the poetic of that language that I'm interested in, which is why I began to explore this concept of erotic intelligence.

那是一个俏皮掏蛋的地方呢还是一个略带点侵略性质的地方呢？还是一个你最后放弃不想负责任的地方呢？它是不是一个你可以表达你孩子气的地方呢？性爱到底是什么？其实性交是一种语言，不是一种行为。而我，正是对这一充满诗意的性交语言感兴趣，这就是为什么我要探讨"性商"这一概念。

And so I began to ask a different question. "I shut myself off when ..." began to be the question. "I turn off my desires when ..." which is not the same question as, "What turns me off is ..." and "You turn me off when ..." And people began to say, "I turn myself off when I feel dead inside, when I don't like my body, when I feel old, when I haven't had time for myself, when I haven't had a chance to even check in with you, when I don't perform well at work, when I feel low self esteem, when I don't have a sense of self-worth, when I don't feel like I have a right to want, to take, to receive pleasure."

所以，我会问另一个问题：我何时不会有性欲。我何时会压制自已的性欲。是什么令我毫无性欲。你何时令我性欲全无。人们会回答说：当我心死时、当我不再喜欢我自己的身体时我对性也就没有任何兴趣了。当我感觉自己老了，当我没有自己的时间了，当我没机会和你去开房时，当我工作毫无业绩可言时，当我没有了自尊、当我觉得没有了个人价值时， 当我觉得我已经没有权力去想，去获得和去接受这种快感受时。

And then I began to ask the reverse question. "I turn myself on when ..." Because most of the time, people like to ask the question, "You turn me on, what turns me on," and I'm out of the question. You know? Now, if you are dead inside, the other person can do a lot of things for Valentine's. It won't make a dent. There is nobody at the reception desk. (Laughter) So I turn myself on when, I turn my desires, I wake up when ...

然后，我会反过来问：我何时会性趣大发。因为很多时候人们喜欢问这类问题：你令我兴奋什么使我兴奋？我不可能兴奋的，对吧？但如果你已经心死了，你的另一半可以为你们的情人节做很多事啊！没有人知道的，前台没有人呢。（笑声）所以，我让自己兴奋，我唤醒自己的性欲，我起来时...

Now, in this paradox between love and desire, what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients that nurture love -- mutuality, reciprocity, protection, worry, responsibility for the other -- are sometimes the very ingredients that stifle desire. Because desire comes with a host of feelings that are not always such favorites of love: jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance, naughtiness, mischief. Basically most of us will get turned on at night by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day.

在爱与欲这对矛盾体里令人不解的是那些滋润着爱的养分——相依相伴、互惠、爱护有加、担心、和为对方肩负起来的责任 这些东西有时也会抑制性欲。因为，性欲来自于一系列的并非全是爱的情感：比如说妒忌、占有欲、冒犯、权力、支配、俏皮捣蛋等等 一般来说，大多数人晚上都会有性兴奋，其实白天也一样可能会有性兴奋。

You know, the erotic mind is not very politically correct. If everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses, we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this. But no, in our mind up there are a host of things going on that we don't always know how to bring to the person that we love, because we think love comes with selflessness and in fact desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness in the best sense of the word: the ability to stay connected to one's self in the presence of another.

性想法在政治上不算很合适，如果每个人都能躺在床上想着满床的玖瑰，那我们今天就没有必要来听这个演讲了。但其实并不然，在我们心底的某个角落，有着一些我们不知道的东西，不知道怎么样将这些东西告诉我们的爱人，这是因为，我们认为爱是自私的，而性欲在很大程度上出于我们的自私。如果说非得这么说的话，自私就是和别人在一起的时候只顾自我的感受。

So I want to draw that little image for you, because this need to reconcile these two sets of needs, we are born with that. Our need for connection, our need for separateness, or our need for security and adventure, or our need for togetherness and for autonomy, and if you think about the little kid who sits on your lap and who is cozily nested here and very secure and comfortable, and at some point all of us need to go out into the world to discover and to explore.

所以，让我稍为概括一下，因为这需要调和一下我们与生俱来的东西。这两种需要，也就是联系的需要，分离的需要或者安全和冒险的需要、团聚的需要、自我管理的需要。如果你想像一下，有个小孩坐在你大腿上他舒服地坐在那里，既安全又舒适。而在某种程度上，我们每个人都需要走出去，去发现、去探索。

That's the beginning of desire, that exploratory needs curiosity, discovery. And then at some point they turn around and they look at you, and if you tell them, "Hey kiddo, the world's a great place. Go for it. There's so much fun out there," then they can turn away and they can experience connection and separateness at the same time. They can go off in their imagination, off in their body, off in their playfulness, all the while knowing that there's somebody when they come back.

这就是性欲的来源，探索需要好奇心和发现。然后，在某时，他们会转过身来问看着你，如果你对他们说： “嘿，老兄，这个世界太美妙了，去享受它吧” 那儿有太多乐趣了。然后他们会去探索，同时去体验团聚和分离。他们会开动想象力和调动他们的身体，动起嬉闹的念想，想着回至家时爱人在等待。

But if on this side there is somebody who says, "I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed. My partner hasn't taken care of me in so long. What's so good out there? Don't we have everything you need together, you and I?" then there are a few little reactions that all of us can pretty much recognize. Some of us will come back, came back a long time ago, and that little child who comes back is the child who will forgo a part of himself in order not to lose the other. I will lose my freedom in order not to lose connection.

但也有人会说：我很担心、我很焦虑、我感到无比压抑，我和爱人很久都不理不睬了。那里有什么好呢？我们两人在一起不就什么都有了吗？就你和我？这就会引起一引起小反应 我们很多人都能识别。我们有些人会回到从前，很久很久以前，那些想要回到从前的小孩，就是那些想放弃部分自我的小孩，为了不失去对方，要想不失去爱，我就得失去自由。

And I will learn to love in a certain way that will become burdened with extra worry and extra responsibility and extra protection, and I won't know how to leave you in order to go play, in order to go experience pleasure, in order to discover, to enter inside myself. Translate this into adult language. It starts very young. It continues into our sex lives up to the end.

而我又得学会用某种方式去爱，这会导致我们过度担心、过大的责任和过度的保护而不堪重负。而我又不知道怎么放手让你去享受、去体验快感，让你去发现，去进入我的内心世界，这要用成年人的语言来理解。性欲从我们很小时候就有，它会陪我们进入我们的性生活期直至我们老死。

Child number two comes back but looks like that over their shoulder all the time. "Are you going to be there? Are you going to curse me? Are you going to scold me? Are you going to be angry with me?" And they may be gone, but they're never really away, and those are often the people that will tell you, in the beginning it was super hot. Because in the beginning, the growing intimacy wasn't yet so strong that it actually led to the decrease of desire. The more connected I became, the more responsible I felt, the less I was able to let go in your presence. The third child doesn't really come back.

第二个孩子回来，但伏在他们的肩上。你快到了吗？你会诅骂我吗？你会责备我吗？你会生我的气吗？这些或许都不见了，但他们永远都不会远离，这些就是人们常会和你说的开始时会很狂热。因为刚开始时，亲密感还没有这么强烈而恰恰是亲密会削弱性欲。联系越紧密，觉得责任越大越不会放手让你走。第三个孩子不会真正的回来。

So what happens, if you want to sustain desire, it's that real dialectic piece. On the one hand you want the security in order to be able to go. On the other hand if you can't go, you can't have pleasure, you can't culminate, you don't have an orgasm, you don't get excited because you spend your time in the body and the head of the other and not in your own.

那会怎样？如果你想保持性欲这是一种真正的辩证法。一方面，为了享受性爱，你需要安全感。另一方面，如果你没有性爱，你不会享受到快感，不会有性亢奋，不会有高潮，你不会兴奋，因为你花太多的时间在别人的身体上或心理上，而忽略了自己的身体和想法。

So in this dilemma about reconciling these two sets of fundamental needs, there are a few things that I've come to understand erotic couples do. One, they have a lot of sexual privacy. They understand that there is an erotic space that belongs to each of them. They also understand that foreplay is not something you do five minutes before the real thing. Foreplay pretty much starts at the end of the previous orgasm. They also understand that an erotic space isn't about, you begin to stroke the other. It's about you create a space where you leave Management Inc., maybe where you leave the agile program, (Laughter)

因此，在妥协的两难中，这两种基本的需要，让我解理了性福夫妇的一些做法。首先，他们有很多性瘾私。他们明白各人都应该有各自的空间。他们也清楚前戏并不是你在性交前5分钟所做的事。前戏应该从你上一次高潮结束之后就开始了。他们同时也明白，性爱空间并不是你开始抚摸对方，性爱是指你开设一个空间，就象经营一间大公司一样，在那里有你灵活的管理计划。（笑声）

and you actually just enter that place where you stop being the good citizen who is taking care of things and being responsible. Responsibility and desire just butt heads. They don't really do well together. Erotic couples also understand that passion waxes and wanes. It's pretty much like the moon. It has intermittent eclipses. But what they know is they know how to resurrect it. They know how to bring it back, and they know how to bring it back because they have demystified one big myth, which is the myth of spontaneity, which is that it's just going to fall from heaven while you're folding the laundry like a deus ex machina, and in fact they understood that whatever is going to just happen in a long-term relationship already has.

而你实际上只进入那个地方，然后像个好市民一样停下来，谁来处理这些问题，谁来为这负责任。责任和性欲俩都只能硬碰硬，他们不会合作。有性福的夫妇也明白，激情会慢慢退化。性欲这东西就很像月亮一样有阴晴圆缺。但是，他们知道怎么恢复它。他们知道怎么样让它再美满起来。他们能这样做是因为他们打破了一个神话那个自然说的神话，性欲可能会在你的折叠衣物时突然出现，就像从天而降一样，豪无征兆，而事实上，他们明白无论发生什么在一个长期的关系中。

Committed sex is premeditated sex. It's willful. It's intentional. It's focus and presence.

有承诺的性爱是有预谋的。性爱是自愿的、你情我愿的、是投入的和确实存在的。

Merry Valentine's.(Applause)

情人节快乐（掌声）