The riddle of experience vs. memory
经验和记忆之谜
此演讲者写过一本很有名的书，叫《思考，快与慢》（Thinking, Fast and Slow）
L8-U2-P2: Experience vs Memory 1
1
Everybody talks about happiness these days.
最近每个人都在谈论幸福。
2
I had somebody count the number of books with "happiness" in the title published in the last 5 years and they gave up after about 40, and there were many more.
我找了些人统计过去5年，带有“幸福”字样的出版的书的数目，他们在找了40本后就不找了，但市面上依然有很多此类书。
3
There is a huge wave of interest in happiness, among researchers.
在研究者中，人民对幸福有浓厚的兴趣。
4
There is a lot of happiness coaching. Everybody would like to make people happier.
市面上有许多幸福教学。每个人都想让人更幸福。
5
But in spite of all this flood of work, there are several cognitive traps that sort of make it almost impossible to think straight about happiness.
即使我们研究了这么多，依然有一些认知陷阱，会使得我们几乎无法直接思考幸福。
6
And my talk today will be mostly about these cognitive traps.
我今天讲的主要是关于那些认知陷阱。
7
This applies to laypeople thinking about their own happiness, and it applies to scholars thinking about happiness, because it turns out we're just as messed up as anybody else is.
这适用于普通人思考自己的幸福，也适用于学者们思考幸福，因为事实表明我们和其他人一样对此理解混乱。
laypeople n. 外行；非专业人员；俗人
eg：As a laypeople, the most important thing to you is to learn and practicemore.
8
The first of these traps is a reluctance to admit complexity. It turns out that
第一个陷阱就是我们不愿意承认复杂性。事实表明
reluctance n. [电磁] 磁阻；勉强；不情愿
eg：I'll show my reluctance to give up.
9
the word "happiness" is just not a useful word anymore, because we apply it to too many different things.
“幸福”这个词不再是一个有用的词，因为我们把它用在太多不同的事上面了。
10
I think there is one particular meaning to which we might restrict it,
我认为我们可以给它下一个特殊的定义，
11
but by and large, this is something that we'll have to give up and we'll have to adopt the more complicated view of what well-being is.
但总的来说，这是我们必须放弃的东西，我们必须用更复杂的观点来看待幸福是什么。
by and large 大体上，总的来说
eg：By and large, this month's performance of the company is not bad.
12
The second trap is a confusion between experience and memory; basically, it's between being happy in your life, and being happy about your life or happy with your life.
第二个陷阱是在经验和记忆之间的混淆；基本上，是在生活中变得快乐，关于生活变得快乐以及和生活变得快乐之间。
13
And those are two very different concepts, and they're both lumped in the notion of happiness.
这是两个非常不同的概念，他们都与幸福的概念混在一起。
lump vt. 混在一起；使成块状；忍耐；笨重地移动
eg：When he water is lumped with the soil, then you get the mud.
14
And the third is the focusing illusion, and it's an unfortunate fact that we can't think about any circumstance that affects well-being without distorting its importance.
第三个是聚焦错觉，有个不幸的事实是，我们无法在不曲解重要性的时候，思考任何影响幸福的情况。
意思就是我们根本判断不清楚什么影响了幸福，什么没影响，甚至各个影响因素的重要性我们也无法判断。就如同相亲的两个人都会给对方列出一大堆条件，但是到分手或离婚的时候，理由总是万能的：性格不合。原因就在于没有清晰的思考，不知道到底应该在相亲时设置什么条件，每个条件是否真的足够重要？
distort vt. 扭曲；使失真；曲解
eg：A jobhunter may tend to distort his or her experiences.
15
I mean, this is a real cognitive trap. There's just no way of getting it right.
我意思是，这确实是个认知陷阱。只是没办法矫正。
L8-U2-P2: Experience vs Memory 2
16
Now, I'd like to start with an example of somebody who had a question-and-answer session after one of my lectures reported a story, and that was a story --
现在，我想以一个例子开始，有个人在我的讲座后的问答环节中讲述了一个故事，故事是这样的 --
17
He said he'd been listening to a symphony,
他说他一直在听一个交响乐，
symphony n. 交响乐；谐声，和声
18
and it was absolutely glorious music and at the very end of the recording, there was a dreadful screeching sound.
这是场大气磅礴的音乐，在唱片的最后，有一个令人窒息、很突然的声响。
这里的recording既可以是交响乐的唱片，也可以是录制的视频，因为他最近一直在听，所以肯定不是现场交响乐。
screeching adj. 突然的，意外的
eg：It's a screeching appointment, but think yourself, you can do it.
19
And then he added, really quite emotionally, it ruined the whole experience.
然后他非常激动地补充道，它毁了整个体验。
20
But it hadn't.
但是它没有。
21
What it had ruined were the memories of the experience. He had had the experience. He had had 20 minutes of glorious music.
它毁掉的是经验的记忆。他有这个经验。他体验过20分钟的大气磅礴的音乐。
22
They counted for nothing because he was left with a memory; the memory was ruined, and the memory was all that he had gotten to keep.
他们没什么用，因为他被留下了一个记忆：这个记忆被毁了，而这个记忆就是所有他必须去保留的东西。
23
What this is telling us, really, is that we might be thinking of ourselves and of other people in terms of two selves.
这告诉我们，我们可能有两种自我，用来思考自己和其他人。
24
There is an experiencing self, who lives in the present
有一个经验自我，活在当下
25
and knows the present, is capable of re-living the past, but basically it has only the present.
了解当下，能够再次体验过去，但基本上它只有现在。
26
It's the experiencing self that the doctor approaches -- you know, when the doctor asks, "Does it hurt now when I touch you here?"
医生所接触的就是这个经验自我 -- 你知道吗，当医生问道：“我现在碰到的地方疼吗？”
27
And then there is a remembering self,
也有个记忆自我，
28
and the remembering self is the one that keeps score, and maintains the story of our life,
记忆自我是用来保留过去，保留我们生活中的故事，
29
and it's the one that the doctor approaches in asking the question,
当医生这样问的时候，医生所接触的就是它，
30
"How have you been feeling lately?" or "How was your trip to Albania?" or something like that.
“最近感觉怎么样？”或“你的阿尔巴尼亚旅行怎么样？”或者其它类似的。
Albania n. 阿尔巴尼亚（位于欧洲）
31
Those are two very different entities, the experiencing self and the remembering self, and getting confused between them is part of the mess about the notion of happiness.
这是两个非常不同的存在，混淆经验自我和记忆自我，是关于幸福的定义的混乱不清的一部分。
32
Now, the remembering self is a storyteller.
现在，这个记忆自我是一个故事讲述者。
33
And that really starts with a basic response of our memories -- it starts immediately. We don't only tell stories when we set out to tell stories.
这从我们记忆的一个基本反应开始——立即开始。当我们开始讲故事的时候，我们不仅仅讲故事。
34
Our memory tells us stories, that is, what we get to keep from our experiences is a story.
我们的记忆给我们讲故事，也就是说，我们从经验中获得的是一个故事。
35
And let me begin with one example.
让我们开始于一个例子。
36
This is an old study. Those are actual patients undergoing a painful procedure. I won't go into detail.
这是一个古老的研究。有许多真实的病人在经历一个痛苦的手术，我不想追究细节。
37
It's no longer painful these days, but it was painful when this study was run in the 1990s.
现在这个手术不再让人痛苦了，但是当这个研究在20世纪90年代运行的时候，这确实痛苦。
38
They were asked to report on their pain every 60 seconds.
他们被要求每60秒汇报他们的痛苦情况。
39
And here are two patients, those are their recordings.
这是2个病人，那些是他们的记录。
40
And you are asked, "Who of them suffered more?" And it's a very easy question. Clearly, Patient B suffered more --
然后你会被问到：“他们中的谁遭受痛苦多？”很明显这是个简单问题。明显，病人B遭受更多 --
41
his colonoscopy was longer, and every minute of pain that Patient A had, Patient B had, and more.
他的结肠镜检查更长，每分钟的痛苦，病人B比病人A遭受更多。
colonoscopy n. 结肠镜检查
42
But now there is another question: "How much did these patients think they suffered?" And here is a surprise.
但是现在有另一个问题：“那些病人认为他们遭受的痛苦有多少？”这就有点意思了。
43
And the surprise is that patient A had a much worse memory of the colonoscopy than patient B.
令人惊讶的是相比病人B，病人A对于结肠镜检查有个更糟糕的记忆。
44
The stories of the colonoscopies were different, and because a very critical part of the story is how it ends.
关于结肠镜检查的故事并不一样，因为这个故事一个最重要的部分是它如何结束的。
45
And neither of these stories is very inspiring or great -- but one of them is this distinct ...
这些故事都不让人励志或者很棒 -- 但是它们中的一个很独特 ...
46
but one of them is distinctly worse than the other.
它们中的一个明显比另一个更糟糕。
47
And the one that is worse is the one where pain was at its peak at the very end.
更糟糕的那个就是手术结束时痛苦在最高点的那个。
48
it's a bad story. How do we know that?
这是个悲伤的故事。我们怎么知道的呢？
49
Because we asked these people after their colonoscopy, and much later, too, "How bad was the whole thing, in total?"
因为我们在这些人做完结肠镜检查之后，以及更晚的时候，问他们，“总的来说，整个事情有多糟糕?”
50
And it was much worse for A than for B, in memory.
在记忆中，A比B更糟糕。
51
Now this is a direct conflict between the experiencing self and the remembering self.
在经验自我和记忆自我中有一个直接的矛盾。
52
From the point of view of the experiencing self, clearly, B had a worse time.
从经验自我的角度来看，明显，B过得更糟糕。
53
Now, what you could do with Patient A, and we actually ran clinical experiments, and it has been done, and it does work --
现在，你能对病人A做什么，我们事实上运行了一个临床实验，这个实验已经做了，也起作用了 --
54
you could actually extend the colonoscopy of Patient A by just keeping the tube in without jiggling it too much.
实际上，你可以延长病人A的结肠镜检查时间，只要保持管子在里面而不剧烈晃动。
jiggle v. 轻摇；抖动；（使）左右摇摆
55
That will cause the patient to suffer, but just a little and much less than before.
这会使得这个病人遭受痛苦，但只有一点，远少于之前。
56
And if you do that for a couple of minutes, you have made the experiencing self of Patient A worse off, and you have the remembering self of Patient A a lot better off,
如果你这么做几分钟，你就使得病人A的经验自我更糟糕，并使得病人A的记忆自我好不少。
病人A先前结尾的时候，在痛苦最高点，现在往后延长点，使得结束的时候痛苦小很多，那么就会导致经验自我认为痛苦遭受过多而感到比以前更糟糕，记忆自我停留在结束那一刻，感到比以前好不少。
57
because now you have endowed Patient A with a better story about his experience.
因为现在你赋予了病人A一个关于他经验的更好的故事。
endow vt. 赋予；捐赠；天生具有
eg：You have not endowed any gift when you birth, so it means you must chase anything through your effort.
58
What defines a story? And that is true of the stories that memory delivers for us, and it's also true of the stories that we make up.
故事的定义是什么?记忆带给我们的故事也是如此，我们编造的故事也是如此。
that is true of 这对...适用；...就是这样
eg：That is true of different people.
59
What defines a story are changes, significant moments and endings.
定义故事的就是变化，特别的瞬间和结尾。
60
Endings are very very important and in this case, you know, the ending dominated.
结尾非常重要，在这个例子中，结尾占主导。
L8-U2-P2: Experience vs Memory 3
61
Now, the experiencing self lives its life continuously.
这个经验自我一直存在着。
62
It has moments of experience, one after the other.
它有体验的时刻，一个接着一个。
63
And you can ask: What happens to these moments?
你会问：“那些时刻发生了什么？”
64
And the answer is really straightforward: They are lost forever.
这个回答就非常直接：它们永远地丢失了。
65
I mean, most of the moments of our life -- and I calculated, you know, the psychological present is said to be about three seconds long;
我意思是，我们生命中的大多数时刻 -- 我计算过，这个心理学目前的回答是大概3秒长；
66
that means that, you know, in a life there are about 600 million of them; in a month, there are about 600,000 -- most of them don't leave a trace.
这意味着，在一生中有6亿个这样的时刻；在1个月中，有大约60万个 -- 它们中的大部分都不会留下痕迹。
67
Most of them are completely ignored by the remembering self.
他们中的大部分被记忆自我完全忽略了。
68
And yet, somehow you get the sense that they should count, that what happens during these moments of experience is our life.
然而，不知怎么的，你会感觉到它们应该是有价值的，在这些时刻发生的就是我们生命中的体验。
69
It's the finite resource that we're spending while we're on this earth.
这就是当我们在这个地球上时，我们所使用的有限的资源。
70
And how to spend it would seem to be relevant, but that is not the story that the remembering self keeps for us.
如何使用它似乎是有操作空间的，但这不是这个记忆自我为我们保留的故事。
71
So we have the remembering self and the experiencing self, and they're really quite distinct.
所以我们有记忆自我和经验自我，而他们完全不同。
72
The biggest difference between them is in the handling of time.
它们最大的不同就是在处理时间方面。
73
From the point of view of the experiencing self, if you have a vacation, and the second week is just as good as the first, then the two-week vacation is twice as good as the one-week vacation.
从经验自我的角度来看，如果你有一个假期，第二周和第一周一样美好，那么这个两周的假期就比一周的假期好一倍。
74
That's not the way it works at all for the remembering self.
对记忆自我来说，完全不是这么回事。
75
For the remembering self, a two-week vacation is barely better than the one-week vacation because there are no new memories added.
对记忆自我来说，一个两周的假期几乎不必一周的假期好，因为没有增添新的记忆。
76
You have not changed the story.
你没有改变这个故事。
77
And in this way, time is actually the critical variable that distinguishes a remembering self from an experiencing self; time has very little impact on the story.
在这种方式中，时间完全是一个评判变量，用来把记忆自我从经验自我中区别开来；时间在这个故事中起的作用很小。
78
Now, the remembering self does more than remember and tell stories.
现在，这个记忆自我不只是记事和讲故事。
79
It is actually the one that makes decisions.
它事实上是做决定的。
80
because, if you have a patient who has had, say, two colonoscopies with two different surgeons and is deciding which of them to choose,
因为，如果你有一个病人，已经在两个不同的外科医生那里做过两次结肠镜检查，并且正在决定选择哪一个，
81
then the one that chooses is the one that has the memory that is less bad, and that's the surgeon that will be chosen.
他选择的那个是记忆中相对好点的，而这个外科医生将被选择。
82
The experiencing self has no voice in this choice.
这个经验自我对这个选择没意见。
83
We actually don't choose between experiences, we choose between memories of experiences.
我们事实上不是在经验中选则，我们在经验的记忆中选择。
84
And even when we think about the future, we don't think of our future normally as experiences.
即使当我们我们思考未来的时候，我们通常也没有把我们的未来当作经验。
85
We think of our future as anticipated memories.
我们把未来当作预期的记忆。
86
And basically you can look at this, you know, as a tyranny of the remembering self,
基本上你可以把它看作是记忆自我的暴政，
tyranny n. 暴政；专横；严酷；残暴的行为（需用复数）
eg：He's one of the victims of the World War II's tyranny.
87
and you can think of the remembering self sort of dragging the experiencing self through experiences that the experiencing self doesn't need.
你可以想象，记忆自我在某种程度上，通过经验自我不需要的经验拖着经验自我。
88
I have that sense that when we go on vacations this is very frequently the case; that is, we go on vacations, to a very large extent, in the service of our remembering self.
我觉得当我们去度假的时候这种情况很常见;也就是说，我们去度假，在很大程度上，是为回忆自我而服务。
度假就是为了平常工作的时候留下一个美好的回忆。
to a very large extent 在很大程度上
in the service of 为……服务；造福于
eg：To a very large extent, the invention of tap water, in the service of every person.
89
And this is a bit hard to justify I think.
这有点难去证明，我认为。
90
I mean, how much do we consume our memories?
我意思是，我们如何消耗自己的记忆？
91
That is one of the explanations that is given for the dominance of the remembering self.
这是其中一个关于记忆自我占主导的解释，
92
And when I think about that, I think about a vacation we had in Antarctica a few years ago, which was clearly the best vacation I've ever had,
当我思考这个的时候，我想到了几年前一次在南极洲的旅行，这很明显是我度过的最美好的假期，
93
and I think of it relatively often, relative to how much I think of other vacations.
相对我想起其它假期，我比较常想起它。
94
And I probably have consumed my memories of that three-week trip, I would say, for about 25 minutes in the last four years.
在过去的四年里，我对那三周旅行的记忆大概消耗了25分钟。
95
Now, you know, if I had ever opened the folder with the 600 pictures in it, I would have spent another hour.
现在，如果我曾打开这个有600张照片的文件夹，我会再花1小时。
96
Now, that is 3 weeks, and that is at most an hour and a half.
现在，这是3周，这回忆就是1个半小时了。
翻照片1小时，回忆脑海中的记忆25分钟。
97
There seems to be a discrepancy.
这似乎有点矛盾。
discrepancy n. 不符；矛盾；相差
98
Now, I may be a bit extreme, you know, in how little appetite I have for consuming memories, but even if you do more of this, there is a genuine question:
现在，在消耗记忆方面我有多少胃口方面，我可能有点极端，但即使你经常回忆过去，有一个真实的问题：
appetite n. 食欲；嗜好
eg：My appetite was a little bad these days.
99
Why do we put so much weight on memory relative to the weight that we put on experiences?
为什么我们相对更多关注记忆，而不是经验？
100
So I want you to think about a thought experiment.
所以我想请你做一个思想实验。
101
Imagine that for your next vacation, you know that at the end of the vacation all your pictures will be destroyed,
想象下，你的下一个假期，在假期末尾，你的所有照片会被销毁，
102
and you'll get an amnesic drug so that you won't remember anything.
你会得到一个遗忘药，你不会记得任何事。
amnesic adj. 遗忘的；失去记忆的
103
Now would you choose the same vocation?
那么你会选则相同的假期吗？
104
And if you would choose a different vacation, there is a conflict between your two selves, and you need to think about how to adjudicate that conflict,
如果你想选一个不同的假期，在你的两个自我间会有一个矛盾，你需要思考下如何判定这个矛盾，
adjudicate vt. 裁定；宣判
eg：How do you adjudicate the conflict between proletariat and bourgeoisie.
105
and it's actually not at all obvious, because if you think in terms of time, then you get one answer,
这事实上不明显，因为如果你就时间而言来思考，你会得到一个答案，
106
and if you think in terms of memories, you might get another answer.
如果你就记忆而言来思考，你可能得到另一个答案。
107
Why do we pick the vocations we do is a problem that confronts us, you know, with a choice between the two selfs.
为什么选则我们度的这个假期，是一个摆我们面前的问题，这个选则在这两个自我之间。
L8-U2-P2: Experience vs Memory 4
108
Now, the two selves bring up two notions of happiness.
现在这两个自我带来了幸福的概念。
109
There are really two concepts of happiness that we can apply, one per self.
这真的是两个我们可以使用的幸福概念，每种自我各一个。
110
So you can ask: How happy is the experiencing self?
所以你可以问：经验自我有多开心？
111
And then you would ask: How happy are the moments in the experiencing self's life?
然后你会问:经验自我生命中的那些时刻有多快乐?
112
And they're all -- happiness for moments is a fairly complicated process.
它们都是这样的 -- 一些时刻的幸福是一个相对复杂的过程。
113
What are the emotions that can be measured?
什么是可以被测量的情绪？
114
And, by the way, now we are capable of getting a pretty good idea of the happiness of the experiencing self over time.
顺便说一下，现在我们有能力对经验自我的幸福感有一个很好的认识。
115
If you ask for the happiness of the remembering self, it's a completely different thing.
如果你要问这个记忆自我的幸福，这是一个完全不同的事。
116
This is not about how happily a person lives.
这不是关于一个人生活得多幸福。
117
It is about how satisfied or pleased the person is when that person thinks about her life. Very different notion.
这是关于当一个人思考她的人生时，会感到多么满足和开心。非常不同的概念。
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Anyone who doesn't distinguish those notions is going to mess up the study of happiness,
任何不区分那些概念的人都会将幸福的研究弄混淆。
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and I belong to a crowd of students of well-being, who've been messing up the study of happiness for a long time in precisely this way.
我属于一群研究幸福的学生，长期以来，他们正是以这种方式打乱了对幸福的研究。
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The distinction between the happiness of the experiencing self and the satisfaction of the remembering self has been recognized in recent years,
在经验自我的幸福和记忆自我的满足之间的区别，在近些年已经被辨别出了，
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and there are now efforts to measure the two separately.
现在有人努力将两者分开衡量。
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The Gallup Organization has a world poll where more than half a million people have been asked questions about what they think of their life and about their experiences,
盖洛普在全球进行了一项民意调查，有50多万人被问及他们对自己的生活和经历的看法，
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and there have been other efforts along those lines.
在这个方向上还有一些其它人的努力。
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So in recent years, we have begun to learn about the happiness of the two selves.
在近些年，我们开始学习这两个自我的幸福。
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And the main lesson I think that we have learned is that they are really different.
我认为我们学到的核心课程是他们真的不同。
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You can know how satisfied somebody is with their life, and that really doesn't teach you much about how happily they're living their life, and vice versa.
你会知道某人对生活有多满意，这真的不会告诉你他们生活多开心，反之亦然。
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You know, just to give you a sense of the correlation, the correlation is about 0.5.
只是给你们一种相关性的感觉，相关性大概是0.5。
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What that means is if you met somebody, and you were told, "Oh his father is six feet tall," how much would you know about his height?
这意味着如果你遇到了某人，你被告知：“他的父亲是6英尺高”，你对他的身高知道多少？
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Well, you would know something about his height, but there's a lot of uncertainty.
你会知道和他身高相关的一些事情，但有很多不确定性。
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You have that much uncertainty.
你有很多不确定性。
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If I tell you that somebody ranked their life 8 on a scale of 10,you have a lot of uncertainty about how happy they are with their experiencing self.
如果我告诉你某人在满分10分的情况下给自己的生活打8分，在他们的经验自我有多么开心这一点上有很多不确定性。
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So the correlation is low.
所以这个相关性很低。
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We know something about what controls satisfaction of the happiness self.
我们知道是什么控制着幸福的满足感。
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We know that money is very important, goals are very important.
我们知道钱很重要，目标很重要。
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We know that happiness is mainly being satisfied with people that we like, spending time with people that we like.
我们知道幸福主要是满足于我们喜欢的人，花时间和我们喜欢的人在一起。
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There are other pleasures, but this is dominant.
也有一些其它的幸福，但这是主要的。
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So if you want to maximize the happiness of the two selves, you are going to end up doing very different things.
所以如果你想要最大化这两个自我的幸福，你将会做非常不同的事情。
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The bottom line of what I've said here is that we really should not think of happiness as a substitute for well-being.
我在这里说的关键是，我们绝不应该把开心当作幸福的替代品。
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It is a completely different notion.
这是完全不同的概念。
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Now, very quickly, another reason we cannot think straight about happiness is that
现在，很快地，另一个我们不能直接思考的关于幸福的原因是
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we do not attend to the same things when we think about life, and we actually live.
当我们思考生活的时候，我们没有注意到同样的事情，我们实际上生活着。
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So, if you ask the simple question of how happy people are in California, you are not going to get to the correct answer.
所以，如果你问在加利福尼亚的人他们有多幸福这个简单的问题，你不会得到正确答案。
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When you ask that question, you think people must be happier in California if, say, you live in Ohio.
当你问这个问题的时候，你认为如果你住在俄亥俄州，那么住在加州的人一定会更幸福。
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And what happens is when you think about living in California, you are thinking of the contrast between California and other places,
当你思考住在加州会发生什么的时候，你是在思考加州和其它地方的区别。
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and that contrast, say, is in climate.
这种区别，比如说，在气候方面。
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Well, it turns out that climate is not very important to the experiencing self and it's not even very important to the reflective self that decides how happy people are.
事实表明气候对经验自我来说不是很重要，甚至对决定人们有多幸福的反思自我来说，这也不很重要。
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But now, because the reflective self is in charge, you may end up -- some people may end up moving to California.
但是现在，因为反思自我占主导，你可能最终 -- 一些人可能最终搬去加州。
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And it's sort of interesting to trace what is going to happen to people who move to California in the hope of getting happier.
去追踪那些带着变得更幸福的希望，搬去加州的人，看下他们身上会发生什么，这挺有趣的。
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Well, their experiencing self is not going to get happier. We know that.
那些经验自我不会更幸福。我们知道这个。
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But one thing will happen: They will think they are happier, because, when they think about it,
但是一件事会发生：他们会认为他们更幸福了，因为，当他们去思考这个，
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they'll be reminded of how horrible the weather was in Ohio, and they will feel they made the right decision.
他们会会想起俄亥俄州的糟糕天气，然后他们会感到做了正确的决定。
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It is very difficult to think straight about well-being, and I hope I have given you a sense of how difficult it is.
直接思考幸福很难，我希望我让你们了解到了这有多难。
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Thank you.
谢谢。
